tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post1976715989930980934..comments2023-10-10T14:43:29.795-04:00Comments on Brooklynguy's Wine and Food Blog: Brooklyn Blind Tasting Panel #4 - Inexpensive Provence RedsBrooklynguyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16321573602782343974noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-79785473743350685932010-04-14T10:12:15.874-04:002010-04-14T10:12:15.874-04:00One quick follow-up to my indie rock analogy... Ju...One quick follow-up to my indie rock analogy... Just as an embrace of super-"natural wine"-tasting wines and an embrace of Parkerzied wines are two sides of the same coin, so the blind championing of indie rock that's doing the accepted thing musically is just the flip side of thinking that technical virtuosity is synonymous with good musicianship.Clarke B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04994102044847917379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-82998103788745392572010-04-14T10:06:18.502-04:002010-04-14T10:06:18.502-04:00Dan,
Sorry for the delayed reply... I couldn'...Dan,<br /><br />Sorry for the delayed reply... I couldn't pry myself away from the 73-hour version of "Dark Star" I was listening to. <br /><br />You make excellent points above, and I think your last couple of sentences in (2) provide hugely fertile ground for discussion. I love your comment: "'it smells "natural," so I know I'm supposed to think it's good.'" This reminds me of my fellow college radio DJs' frequent endorsement of so many middling third-tier indie bands that happened to be doing the right things (i.e., amateurish singing, no solos, "interesting" lyrics, funneling/aping cool and accepted predecessors). Is it really OK for wines from totally different regions and grapes to taste virtually indistinguishable just because they're not spraying or using sulfur? Not for my money. <br /><br />On the topic of properly and nuancedly defining the term, I'll offer this: not every natural wine is a "natural wine"... Know what I mean?Clarke B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04994102044847917379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-31551422615858593932010-04-13T00:02:38.844-04:002010-04-13T00:02:38.844-04:00Love when you do this. Forwarded the last couple t...Love when you do this. Forwarded the last couple to my Cali buddies trying to jog their palate. sorry I've been a stranger, again. Will be in town between tomorrow April 13 & the 25th- if it sounds like I can stay away from the home situ a week or so longer, I'll try...cheers.<br />PS- @ Carlton Arms Hotel, next to Baruch College on 25 corner of 3d Ave.viNomadichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10871310275756229282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-75939811756149603632010-04-08T22:16:46.749-04:002010-04-08T22:16:46.749-04:00Wine, schmine -- the real bummer is that I'll ...Wine, schmine -- the real bummer is that I'll never speak to Clarke again. I have ended friendships with those who even uttered the word 'hippie' in my presence.<br /><br />Much better to be accused of seeing the world through Mosel-tinted glasses! Truly, as the rest of the crew has already made clear, I think we took each of the wines on its respective merits, though I didn't care for the ones that were brown, poor, female, or Asian.<br /><br />Clarke, to your (much appreciated, first THREE) points:<br /><br />(1) Agreed, though doesn't much of the difficulty here rest on the shortcomings of a particularly unsatisfactory appellation system in Provence? I would imagine that it is very difficult in the States to put together a grouping (outside of Bandol) where apples-to-apples would be possible.<br /><br />(2) I'll be interested in hearing more about your thesis as it develops. In the context of this tasting, it was interesting to note that those wines which were to my mind immediately noticeable as 'natural' wines all improved over the course of the evening, whereas the seemingly more heavily manipulated ones just stayed put. I think that the two-sides-of-the-coin idea certainly holds water at first glance, and especially at blind or industry tastings where a first sip is all you get. The hope is that 'natural' wines - and here we get to my bugaboo, which is defining with nuance and open-mindedness what that term might mean - might offer more over the longer term, whether that's an evening or a decade. But - and I assume this is what you were getting at when you said that easily-identifiable 'natural' wines might not be a good thing - the danger is that this 2010 definition of 'natural' can easily lead to laziness, i.e., "it smells 'natural,' so I know I'm supposed to think it's good." <br /><br />(3) What was great about this line-up was that (to my taste) not a single wine could be deemed big, alcoholic, or sloppy. It was a treat to have that easy complaint removed for the night; it mean that we really need to engage with what we had in front of us. Of course the point is that just because they're NOT big and alcoholic doesn't mean that I have to like them, just as a film without CGI or explosions is not always worthy of praise. <br /><br />(4) Seriously. I've only had Cherry Garcia once. I prefer their vanilla.Dannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-57068309713362664672010-04-08T14:47:34.224-04:002010-04-08T14:47:34.224-04:00Interesting post, and certainly encourages me to n...Interesting post, and certainly encourages me to not write off any region and taste with an open mind. Thanks for your fantastic blog Brooklynguy.<br /><br />Ben, it's Marc here, former customer who moved back to San Francisco. Hope you're well! Wish we could still walk down the street to Slope Cellars.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11453966900498238333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-39830232979413869522010-04-08T14:18:27.992-04:002010-04-08T14:18:27.992-04:00Yes, I think that what Anon is complaining about i...Yes, I think that what Anon is complaining about is true - that there are people in the wine world who are prejudiced against or towards certain wines, and that is annoying. But that is precisely why I wanted to do this tasting, and why I invited these smart folks to join - they are open to interesting expressive wine wherever they may be from. Non one was comparing anything to anything else, or starting by hating Provence wines. <br /><br />"Good, real, genuine, traditional wine, is interesting no matter what color, class, gender, or race..." - true true. <br /><br />Either I didn't write about this correctly in the post, or perhaps you are feeling frustrated about a real thing, but a real thing that wasn't actually a part of our evening.Brooklynguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16321573602782343974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-62119017844983156072010-04-08T12:40:23.799-04:002010-04-08T12:40:23.799-04:00I agree completely that there is a place for the f...I agree completely that there is a place for the full spectrum of "real, genuine, traiditional wine" but the question posed to us was whether or not we would purchase any of these wines for our own pleasure. I have occasions where I reach for a sturdy red to pair with a hearty meal but most frequently I find myself enjoying lighter, higher-acid wines (largely a reflection of the style of food I cook/eat). That's just how I roll. No prejudice, just personal taste and opinion. I love Bandol, but rarely have an occasion to drink one. And I don't think Dan ever compared Mosel wine to Bandol - he, again, was simply articulating what wines he enjoys most. Really, there was no hatin' or discriminatin' going on - merely evaluation and articulation of our tastes and how these wines fit in. Harmless stuff, really. Good times...Benhttp://slopecellars.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-46122808277646223292010-04-08T10:22:21.872-04:002010-04-08T10:22:21.872-04:00I am going to agree with Clarke on this one. What&...I am going to agree with Clarke on this one. What's all this prejudice against southern wines? And the mantra being repeated over and over that "lighter, low this and that" is preferable to "fruity, powerful wines..." My oh my! How can someone even compare a Bandol to a Mosel wine? It's the same as saying that Mahler is not as good as Mozart... <br /><br />There's a lot of beauty in "big, powerful" reds... there are many criteria that could be used to evaluate such wines as well, "balance" for one...<br /><br />Pretty soon this will all backfire, the talk about "I just can't see myself drinking that, or being interested in this..." Good, real, genuine, traditional wine, is interesting no matter what color, class, gender, or race...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3799854524070158890.post-4698971335797541872010-04-08T09:04:52.762-04:002010-04-08T09:04:52.762-04:00Thanks for fighting the tide and sticking up for t...Thanks for fighting the tide and sticking up for the wines of the south. A few thoughts:<br /><br />(1) I understand that this was a price-point-driven tasting and not the rigorous examination of a specific terroir, but there is a world of difference between, say, a baby Bandol and a Coteaux Varois, and I don't think all these wines are necessarily in the same meaningful peer group.<br /><br />(2) Natural wines tend to stick out in tastings the same way that hugely extracted fruit bombs do, announcing themselves as immediately different from the rest of the lineup, and I don't know if that's a good thing. (This is part of my developing thesis that ultra-natural-tasting wines and Parkerized wines are really two sides of the same coin. You mention that the Comptoirs de Magdala "was more expressive as a natural wine than as a Provence wine"... I encounter this often, and while I frequently find the wines delicious, it really bothers me.)<br /><br />(3) Dismissing southern wines as big, alcoholic messes is a common meme, and something I've even been guilty of myself from time to time, but it's totally misguided, and it precludes meaningful engagement with true wines of terroir. It's the "DISCO SUCKS" of the current wine scene.<br /><br />(4) Dan, what's all this about "pleasure"? Hippie.Clarke B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04994102044847917379noreply@blogger.com